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	<title>Comments on: Am I missing the point on open educational resources?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.ubc.ca/brian/2008/11/am-i-missing-the-point-on-open-educational-resources/</link>
	<description>social learning, open education, and petty battles with rivals over power and money...</description>
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		<title>By: Content</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ubc.ca/brian/2008/11/am-i-missing-the-point-on-open-educational-resources/comment-page-1/#comment-2293</link>
		<dc:creator>Content</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 01:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] am a little fearful to bring this up, as the last time I made some tentative forays in this direction I feel I was widely misunderstood both by people who &#8220;agreed&#8221; and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] am a little fearful to bring this up, as the last time I made some tentative forays in this direction I feel I was widely misunderstood both by people who &#8220;agreed&#8221; and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: More on missing the point&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ubc.ca/brian/2008/11/am-i-missing-the-point-on-open-educational-resources/comment-page-1/#comment-2289</link>
		<dc:creator>More on missing the point&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 01:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] previous post triggered a surprising number of comments and posts, many of them very provocative, and it has been [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] previous post triggered a surprising number of comments and posts, many of them very provocative, and it has been [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Lane</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ubc.ca/brian/2008/11/am-i-missing-the-point-on-open-educational-resources/comment-page-1/#comment-2138</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Lane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://migrator.rab.olt.ubc.ca/brian2/2008/11/12/am-i-missing-the-point-on-open-educational-resources/#comment-2138</guid>
		<description>Modern education is based upon content. It is recorded content written in books, on blackboards in notebooks in exam scripts etc etc. It is also ephemeral content in lectures, discussions and conversations. There is potential learning value in that content to its creator and to its &#039;audience&#039;. Open educational resources (content + tools) potentially redefines the nature of the relationships between the different actors in a system of education because so much content that was ephemeral or only available to a few is now available to all. Hence the abundance of content. But that is not to say that having lots of &#039;good&#039; content is sufficient as its value for learning depends on context. There is always someone that can put a new twist, a new interepretation on the knowledge etc imbued within the content. Content will continue to multiply and grow as it is natural for many of us to add our own take on knowledge etc expressed as content. This is also why OERs are more than just about education, they are also about knowledge management and knowledge creation as people variously use them and the powers of linking, connecting and conversing to make new sense about the world. Universities have long ceased to be the only sources for this activity but they do offer some of the best managed systems for helping others to become fully fledged members of this activity through programmes of study that have handy, tradeable badges at the end (degree certificates) for those seeking advancement in labour markets etc. They are guarantors of certain achievements in the marketplace of work. So the benefits of OERs fall more on the side of learners at the moment than educators but inevitablky educators will reposnd to these &#039;market&#039; signals as they have done over the years. Does that make for better education? Depends on your viewpoint but it certainly opens the system up to more scrutiny from more people than ever before and things will change, slowly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Modern education is based upon content. It is recorded content written in books, on blackboards in notebooks in exam scripts etc etc. It is also ephemeral content in lectures, discussions and conversations. There is potential learning value in that content to its creator and to its &#8216;audience&#8217;. Open educational resources (content + tools) potentially redefines the nature of the relationships between the different actors in a system of education because so much content that was ephemeral or only available to a few is now available to all. Hence the abundance of content. But that is not to say that having lots of &#8216;good&#8217; content is sufficient as its value for learning depends on context. There is always someone that can put a new twist, a new interepretation on the knowledge etc imbued within the content. Content will continue to multiply and grow as it is natural for many of us to add our own take on knowledge etc expressed as content. This is also why OERs are more than just about education, they are also about knowledge management and knowledge creation as people variously use them and the powers of linking, connecting and conversing to make new sense about the world. Universities have long ceased to be the only sources for this activity but they do offer some of the best managed systems for helping others to become fully fledged members of this activity through programmes of study that have handy, tradeable badges at the end (degree certificates) for those seeking advancement in labour markets etc. They are guarantors of certain achievements in the marketplace of work. So the benefits of OERs fall more on the side of learners at the moment than educators but inevitablky educators will reposnd to these &#8216;market&#8217; signals as they have done over the years. Does that make for better education? Depends on your viewpoint but it certainly opens the system up to more scrutiny from more people than ever before and things will change, slowly.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lott</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ubc.ca/brian/2008/11/am-i-missing-the-point-on-open-educational-resources/comment-page-1/#comment-2140</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Gardner:

Actually, for a lot of purposes, Borders and the Internet ARE all you need-- in one sense the push for OERs helps make this kind of educational material accessible to those who don&#039;t have access to and/or the ability to pay for the content they could otherwise receive. I&#039;m all for the distance learner who can benefit from that kind of content being well provided for.

But I&#039;m with you (and Brian) that there are many other needs as well. What I don&#039;t agree with is that there is enough good content out there, that showing artifacts of process is the same as providing process (in the end, an instructor can use other content but he/she will always be creating their own context), or that for many (including my institution) going the way of open content isn&#039;t the best and most productive way to get to other (some higher level, some not) kinds of sharing...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gardner:</p>
<p>Actually, for a lot of purposes, Borders and the Internet ARE all you need&#8211; in one sense the push for OERs helps make this kind of educational material accessible to those who don&#8217;t have access to and/or the ability to pay for the content they could otherwise receive. I&#8217;m all for the distance learner who can benefit from that kind of content being well provided for.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m with you (and Brian) that there are many other needs as well. What I don&#8217;t agree with is that there is enough good content out there, that showing artifacts of process is the same as providing process (in the end, an instructor can use other content but he/she will always be creating their own context), or that for many (including my institution) going the way of open content isn&#8217;t the best and most productive way to get to other (some higher level, some not) kinds of sharing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Gardner</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ubc.ca/brian/2008/11/am-i-missing-the-point-on-open-educational-resources/comment-page-1/#comment-2139</link>
		<dc:creator>Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 13:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m with Laura and Lanny on this one, I think. Emphasizing content, open or not, misses a crucial point about education. Only contact with other learners, and guidance from expert learners who can take students into their zones of proximal development and aid them there, adds up to education. Otherwise, Borders and the Internet would be pretty much all you need.

I think some (by no means all!) of the OER push is akin to the delight folks felt when CD-ROMs first came on the scene and we discovered that all of Shakespeare, Spenser, Milton, and Lewis Carroll (plus many others) could fit on a single shiny disc. In other words, there&#039;s a bit of a &quot;shovelware&quot; aspect to some of the open resources. What&#039;s missing is often context, mess, process, read-write opportunities. And with regard to online discussions (mentioned in another post), I think our students have gotten so used to what Lanny brilliantly calls &quot;algorithmic&quot; learning that they can&#039;t see how a messy discussion with fuzzy boundaries can actually make their learning *stronger* than something regimented, ordered, freeze-dried, and easy-to-track.

I need to follow up a remark John Kane made to me when I was up at SUNY-Oswego. He said he&#039;d read a study that suggested student retention of lecture material was actually *greater* when the material was a little less linear, a little less organized, a little more associational or digressive. Presumably the lockstep algorithm march plays into both student and faculty desires in unhealthy ways.

But I digress. Bottom line for me is that OER is a great idea and a necessary educational practice. Freeing our content from LMS boundaries is a wonderful thing. And I am not someone who thinks that process trumps product. Products matter, and they matter crucially. But the culture of education is only as transparent and inspiring as its processes and practices--and I don&#039;t see OER doing enough to make those processes and practices truly open and shareable. Perhaps that would mean taking on certain core contradictions in our present educational practice in ways that we just can&#039;t do right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Laura and Lanny on this one, I think. Emphasizing content, open or not, misses a crucial point about education. Only contact with other learners, and guidance from expert learners who can take students into their zones of proximal development and aid them there, adds up to education. Otherwise, Borders and the Internet would be pretty much all you need.</p>
<p>I think some (by no means all!) of the OER push is akin to the delight folks felt when CD-ROMs first came on the scene and we discovered that all of Shakespeare, Spenser, Milton, and Lewis Carroll (plus many others) could fit on a single shiny disc. In other words, there&#8217;s a bit of a &#8220;shovelware&#8221; aspect to some of the open resources. What&#8217;s missing is often context, mess, process, read-write opportunities. And with regard to online discussions (mentioned in another post), I think our students have gotten so used to what Lanny brilliantly calls &#8220;algorithmic&#8221; learning that they can&#8217;t see how a messy discussion with fuzzy boundaries can actually make their learning *stronger* than something regimented, ordered, freeze-dried, and easy-to-track.</p>
<p>I need to follow up a remark John Kane made to me when I was up at SUNY-Oswego. He said he&#8217;d read a study that suggested student retention of lecture material was actually *greater* when the material was a little less linear, a little less organized, a little more associational or digressive. Presumably the lockstep algorithm march plays into both student and faculty desires in unhealthy ways.</p>
<p>But I digress. Bottom line for me is that OER is a great idea and a necessary educational practice. Freeing our content from LMS boundaries is a wonderful thing. And I am not someone who thinks that process trumps product. Products matter, and they matter crucially. But the culture of education is only as transparent and inspiring as its processes and practices&#8211;and I don&#8217;t see OER doing enough to make those processes and practices truly open and shareable. Perhaps that would mean taking on certain core contradictions in our present educational practice in ways that we just can&#8217;t do right now.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lott</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ubc.ca/brian/2008/11/am-i-missing-the-point-on-open-educational-resources/comment-page-1/#comment-2156</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://migrator.rab.olt.ubc.ca/brian2/2008/11/12/am-i-missing-the-point-on-open-educational-resources/#comment-2156</guid>
		<description>Doesn&#039;t it seem a little bit ironic to argue against the artificial culture of scarcity in order to make an argument that (at least) implies that sharing more open &quot;content&quot; (I&#039;ll explain the quotes in a blog entry of my own soon) is somehow detracting from sharing other artifacts?

I&#039;m with Jon on this one-- there ain&#039;t hardly enough good content (in the traditional sense) out there.

But that doesn&#039;t mean that documents of process and other contextualizing information isn&#039;t also needed nor does it imply that those who work with orgs like OCW or use terms like OERs aren&#039;t also working on opening up that kind of content too, much less that we are unfamiliar with the concept as too many lately are implying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t it seem a little bit ironic to argue against the artificial culture of scarcity in order to make an argument that (at least) implies that sharing more open &#8220;content&#8221; (I&#8217;ll explain the quotes in a blog entry of my own soon) is somehow detracting from sharing other artifacts?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m with Jon on this one&#8211; there ain&#8217;t hardly enough good content (in the traditional sense) out there.</p>
<p>But that doesn&#8217;t mean that documents of process and other contextualizing information isn&#8217;t also needed nor does it imply that those who work with orgs like OCW or use terms like OERs aren&#8217;t also working on opening up that kind of content too, much less that we are unfamiliar with the concept as too many lately are implying.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Caulfield</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ubc.ca/brian/2008/11/am-i-missing-the-point-on-open-educational-resources/comment-page-1/#comment-2155</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Caulfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://migrator.rab.olt.ubc.ca/brian2/2008/11/12/am-i-missing-the-point-on-open-educational-resources/#comment-2155</guid>
		<description>The short answer is that we&#039;re pushing production of content, because that is really a token by which we talk about increasing participation. There&#039;s a lot of great content out there but the dispersion of participation is lumpy at best.

This, incidentally, is why I am less impressed with Open Yale Courses than the Rip-Mix Learners project. Because Rip-Mix Learners fully democratizes participation in a way that Open Yale Courses doesn&#039;t.

Maybe I&#039;m oversimplfying this, but I don&#039;t think so. There&#039;s a lot of OER out there, but if it&#039;s produced by a small fraction of the population, and particularly if it&#039;s produced by the usual suspects, we have a lot more work to do.

As far as university involvement -- either their are unique perspectives in your university that should be part of the grand conversation, or we&#039;re all frauds. I&#039;m not completely ruling out the second possibility, but my operating assumption is the first, and my experience is if there is stuff in a state school of 5,000 students that can change the world as we know it (and I know for a fact there is) there is stuff everywhere that needs to be up, ASAP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The short answer is that we&#8217;re pushing production of content, because that is really a token by which we talk about increasing participation. There&#8217;s a lot of great content out there but the dispersion of participation is lumpy at best.</p>
<p>This, incidentally, is why I am less impressed with Open Yale Courses than the Rip-Mix Learners project. Because Rip-Mix Learners fully democratizes participation in a way that Open Yale Courses doesn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Maybe I&#8217;m oversimplfying this, but I don&#8217;t think so. There&#8217;s a lot of OER out there, but if it&#8217;s produced by a small fraction of the population, and particularly if it&#8217;s produced by the usual suspects, we have a lot more work to do.</p>
<p>As far as university involvement &#8212; either their are unique perspectives in your university that should be part of the grand conversation, or we&#8217;re all frauds. I&#8217;m not completely ruling out the second possibility, but my operating assumption is the first, and my experience is if there is stuff in a state school of 5,000 students that can change the world as we know it (and I know for a fact there is) there is stuff everywhere that needs to be up, ASAP.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ubc.ca/brian/2008/11/am-i-missing-the-point-on-open-educational-resources/comment-page-1/#comment-2154</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://migrator.rab.olt.ubc.ca/brian2/2008/11/12/am-i-missing-the-point-on-open-educational-resources/#comment-2154</guid>
		<description>There is great non-OER content available, and educators should feel free to be able to use what works. I think you are underestimating the importance of localization. Can we really say to educators: &quot;Here&#039;s a great YouTube video, you can show it for free, your students can mash it up in the class, but it can never see the light of day because of copyright...and if that doesn&#039;t work, too bad because we don&#039;t want to run a clunky platform to offer an alternative.&quot;? We talk about Not-Invented-Here syndrome, yet there&#039;s this bizarre self-loathing Instructional Technologists have for their own institution or repositories. The grass is always greener on the other side, I suppose.

Though I was never crazy about the term edupunk, and I don&#039;t want to be too pointed in this, but how does telling people they can link to regular copyrighted materials fit into that ideal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is great non-OER content available, and educators should feel free to be able to use what works. I think you are underestimating the importance of localization. Can we really say to educators: &#8220;Here&#8217;s a great YouTube video, you can show it for free, your students can mash it up in the class, but it can never see the light of day because of copyright&#8230;and if that doesn&#8217;t work, too bad because we don&#8217;t want to run a clunky platform to offer an alternative.&#8221;? We talk about Not-Invented-Here syndrome, yet there&#8217;s this bizarre self-loathing Instructional Technologists have for their own institution or repositories. The grass is always greener on the other side, I suppose.</p>
<p>Though I was never crazy about the term edupunk, and I don&#8217;t want to be too pointed in this, but how does telling people they can link to regular copyrighted materials fit into that ideal?</p>
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		<title>By: Seth</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ubc.ca/brian/2008/11/am-i-missing-the-point-on-open-educational-resources/comment-page-1/#comment-2153</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://migrator.rab.olt.ubc.ca/brian2/2008/11/12/am-i-missing-the-point-on-open-educational-resources/#comment-2153</guid>
		<description>There is great non-OER content available, and educators should feel free to be able to use what works. I think you are underestimating the importance of localization. Can we really say to educators: &quot;Here&#039;s a great YouTube video, you can show it for free, your students can mash it up in the class, but it can never see the light of day because of copyright...and if that doesn&#039;t work, too bad because we don&#039;t want to run a clunky platform to offer an alternative.&quot;? We talk about Not-Invented-Here syndrome, yet there&#039;s this bizarre self-loathing Instructional Technologists have for their own institution or repositories. The grass is always greener on the other side, I suppose.

Though I was never crazy about the term edupunk, and I don&#039;t want to be too pointed in this, but how does telling people they can link to regular copyrighted materials fit into that ideal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is great non-OER content available, and educators should feel free to be able to use what works. I think you are underestimating the importance of localization. Can we really say to educators: &#8220;Here&#8217;s a great YouTube video, you can show it for free, your students can mash it up in the class, but it can never see the light of day because of copyright&#8230;and if that doesn&#8217;t work, too bad because we don&#8217;t want to run a clunky platform to offer an alternative.&#8221;? We talk about Not-Invented-Here syndrome, yet there&#8217;s this bizarre self-loathing Instructional Technologists have for their own institution or repositories. The grass is always greener on the other side, I suppose.</p>
<p>Though I was never crazy about the term edupunk, and I don&#8217;t want to be too pointed in this, but how does telling people they can link to regular copyrighted materials fit into that ideal?</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ubc.ca/brian/2008/11/am-i-missing-the-point-on-open-educational-resources/comment-page-1/#comment-2152</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://migrator.rab.olt.ubc.ca/brian2/2008/11/12/am-i-missing-the-point-on-open-educational-resources/#comment-2152</guid>
		<description>Hey all - I&#039;m sorry, between the event I am at, and no hotel wifi, I have not had time to properly respond to your great comments. Thanks for your thoughts, they are churning in my mind, and I will try to respond soon...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey all &#8211; I&#8217;m sorry, between the event I am at, and no hotel wifi, I have not had time to properly respond to your great comments. Thanks for your thoughts, they are churning in my mind, and I will try to respond soon&#8230;</p>
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