‘To hell with country’<\/a><\/p>\nOur no-holds-barred interview with Merle Haggard<\/p>\n
By Jim Reed<\/p>\n
Since his earliest days as a rough and tumble juvenile delinquent, this
\ndisturber of the peace has stood apart from the rest of the pack. A
\nsophisticated man who’s never shied away from being blunt if it suited his
\npurposes, he’s alternately a sensitive, emotional poet, and a plucky, gruff
\ncurmudgeon.<\/p>\n
As such, he’s come to personify the perfect distillation of the particular
\nbrand of genius one might bestow upon the very greatest country and western
\nmusic stars.<\/p>\n
As time moves on, and more and more of the genre’s legendary figures leave
\nthis old wicked world, Haggard (an apropos surname if there ever was one)
\ntrucks on, one of the last of a dying breed. After being essentially written
\noff by many of the power brokers of the very industry his hits helped create
\nand nurture, in 2003, he received no small amount of critical praise for
\nUnforgettable, an under-promoted disc that found him lending his own
\ninimitable style to a collection of American pop standards.<\/p>\n
To those with only a cursory knowledge of his back catalog, this may have
\nseemed a crass attempt at cross-over success. However, those familiar with
\nhis mercurial career recognized that CD as another in a long line of Haggard
\nreleases (such as those devoted to tunes by Jimmie Rodgers or Bob Wills)
\nmeant as love letters to artists whose work helped form Merle’s own unique
\napproach to songwriting.<\/p>\n
Whether known as the prot\u00e9g\u00e9 of (and sideman to) the late guitarist and
\nsinger Buck Owens, or as the man who penned such timeless classics as
\n“Working Man Blues,” “I Threw Away The Rose,” “The Bottle Let Me Down,” and
\nthe controversial “Okie From Muskogee,” or as an outspoken critic of the
\nPatriot Act, The Hag is one of a kind.<\/p>\n
That’s probably why he was tapped by another one-of-a-kind superstar, Bob
\nDylan, to share the bill with him on over 20 dates across the U.S.A.,
\nincluding this Sunday’s appearance at the Civic Center.<\/p>\n
This is Merle’s second outing with Dylan (the first took place last spring),
\nand by all audience accounts, this pairing of crusty, idiosyncratic
\nsongwriters is a match made in heaven.<\/p>\n
Merle and I talked trash on the phone for what seemed like an hour, and it
\nwas a real hoot. Here’s some of our chat.<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: Where are you at?<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: We’re in St. Louis tonight.<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: That must be a good town for you.<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: Well, it’s the middle of America! (laughs)<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: The posters for this tour read “all new show!” How much of
\nthat is just a catchy slogan, and how much is real?<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: Well, I wing it every night. We’ve got no set list. It’s not
\nthe same conversation or the same jokes, you know? I think Bob comes up with
\na couple of different setlists for each tour, and I’m pretty sure the show
\nhe’s doing is a little different from the one he did when we were together
\nlast year. Basically, I just go out there and have fun, and so far it’s been
\nreal, real good. Tickets are selling, and people are standing up on every
\nsong.<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: During the first shows with Bob, a lot got made of the
\ntension between your two camps – Dylan being his inscrutable self, and you
\nperhaps rightfully expecting him to be a more gracious host. I got the
\nfeeling that was blown out of proportion, and sure enough, you guys are back
\nout together. Has the ice thawed, or is he still unavailable for hang time?<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: Well, Bob’s a mysterious guy. He doesn’t really hang out with
\nanybody! That’s fine with me. I speak to him every once in a while. We
\nactually talked for about 20 or 30 minutes the other day, and that was the
\nfirst time that’s occurred. He’s very off to himself, you know. His persona
\nis rather serious, and I suppose it always has been. That hasn’t changed
\njust for me. I mean, he’s that way with everybody!<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: Many people see this tour as a celebration of two
\ncounterculture icons. Yet if there’s a connection between you and Bob as
\nartists, I would think it has more to do with being your own men and
\nfollowing your hearts. Does that assessment ring true, or do you feel
\nanother type of bond with Dylan, or no bond at all?<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: Well, Bob and I are both songwriters. That’s where the bond
\nis. We admire each other’s work. He does a couple of my songs in his show
\nfrom time to time when I’m on tour with him. He does a rock version of “Mama
\nTried,” and he does “Sing Me Back Home.” I’ve always found him and his music
\nto be interesting – as much as the public does. On tour he finds it
\ncomplimentary to have me share the bill with him and vice versa.<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: Both you and Dylan are known for not saying too much in
\npublic about your political views, but, when you do take a stand, folks pay
\nattention. I know you haven’t been the most ardent supporter of our current
\npresidential administration in regards to the military action in the Middle
\nEast. Do you get any feeling that more people are starting to question
\nauthority, or do things still look pretty grim to you as far as free speech
\nis concerned?<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: It looks pretty grim, doesn’t it? I don’t see any chance for
\nthe people who disagree to really change anything. I mean, we have chosen to
\ngo to war to defend our freedom. Meanwhile, at the exact same time, our
\nfreedom is being diminished in our own country by scare tactics that are
\nsupposedly caused by terrorists – but we’re the ones running up the “terror
\nalert.” So, what does that makes us? If we’re gonna go all the way across
\nthe world and fight for it, we should have the very best brand of it. But we
\ndon’t have it anymore.<\/p>\n
I really wonder sometimes how long the public will be so stupid as to allow
\nthemselves to continue to be shortchanged. I just wish someone – anyone –
\nwould take a minute and raise their head and look up to see what’s really
\ngoing away, what we’ve already lost. This Free Trade Agreement that we’re in
\n– we’re now on a level playing field with over a hundred other countries.
\nAfter all the scare tactics our government’s used on us since 9\/11, we’ve
\ngone straight to hell in this country. We have no say whatsoever in much of
\nthe way our government conducts its business, and the way they scapegoat
\npeople. Look what they did to the Dixie Chicks, and Linda Ronstadt.<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: Well, that Linda Ronstadt business was so absurd that it
\nalmost seemed like a Saturday Night Live sketch.<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: It seemed like something from 1942 Nazi Germany to me. I
\ndon’t know why little by little people have allowed our country to change so
\nmuch over the last five years! What we’re fighting for doesn’t even exist
\nanymore.<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: When you see the crowds on these double-bills, how are
\nthey different from the shows where you’re the headliner? Are they younger,
\nmore diverse?<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: Well, I’ll tell you what. After touring for 40 years and
\nwatching this country go away, the time of day seems to determine whether
\nyou have an older crowd. If you want to draw anybody even remotely older,
\nyou gotta play at noon! They’re not gonna come out in this country anymore!
\nThey’re scared to death to come out after dark. That’s a fact. By and large
\nyou just won’t see ladies with grey in their hair walking around after dark
\nin most cities. In this society, it’s the young folks who come out at night.
\nSo, if you wanna draw kids, you play after dark. (laughs)<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: Well, these Dylan shows start in the early evening, so I
\nguess it’s the best of both worlds.<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: You’re right. We seem to draw a cross-section of both age
\ngroups. For example, I played in Miami, Oklahoma last night. We had a full
\nhouse by ourselves. But the show started at 7:30 in the evening! Now, some
\nyears ago, I’m here to tell you that nobody would have been at a show at
\n7:30 at night! But now, with the terror alerts and the lack of freedom and
\nthe scare tactics they’re using… Then, you’ve got these people who won’t
\ncome out on the weekends. They won’t even compete with the young people
\nanymore. It’s like they’ve given in and given up. It’s really become two
\nseparate societies as far as the age difference is concerned.
\nI just celebrated my birthday. It was my 69th, so I didn’t celebrate it that
\nmuch (laughs), I just stayed at home. I don’t even go to the Quickie Stop
\nafter dark. My family and everyone I know is the exact same way. After dark,
\nthe streets seem like they belong to the gangs and the police. But, hell, by
\n9 p.m., the gangs and the police are even shut out! We played in Kansas
\nCity, Kansas, the other night, and our hotel was way up high on a hill. You
\ncould look out and see the whole town, and there was nothin’ goin’ on! The
\nplace was totally shut down. America used to be a 24-hour country, and these
\ndays it seems like it doesn’t do anything after 9 o’clock.<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: As an artist who’s crossed the U.S. for decades, you’ve
\ngot a unique perspective on this changing climate. Do you feel any sort of
\nsea change in the works? Is there a backlash brewing?<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: I believe you and I will never see any different as long as
\nwe live. We’re stuck with it. I feel like certain towns in America are
\ncommitted to entertainment. You have Myrtle Beach, New York City, Portland,
\nSeattle, San Francisco, Las Vegas, and after that you head toward the center
\nof the U.S., and there’s nothing. Nothing! If it’s happening, it better damn
\nwell happen in the middle of the day, or it’ll be a failure.<\/p>\n
I don’t know how America can work on only eight hours a day. People
\nshouldn’t forget – this used to be a 24-hour country. It used to be you
\ncould go anywhere in Las Vegas and get steak and eggs at four in the
\nmorning. ‘Round the clock. Now, you can’t get breakfast after 2 p.m. in Las
\nVegas! If there’s anybody that doubts what I’m saying, they need to go out,
\nand ride across this country and see what I’m talking about. It’ll break
\nyour heart.<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: When you returned to Capitol records, it made for great
\nPR. Did it feel at all like a real homecoming, or was that just a convenient
\nstory?<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: Well, you know the Capitol records of ’65 and the Capitol
\nRecords of now have no similarity whatsoever. It’s completely different
\npeople with different ideas on how to run a business. I think one of the
\nmain reasons they wanted me back was to get the digital rights on some of my
\nold material that they didn’t have. The majority of the music they had on me
\nwas on old contracts, and they had no provisions in there for digital
\nrights.<\/p>\n
I think they wanted my signature on that and that was the only reason they
\never signed me again. I don’t think they had any intention of trying to sell
\nmy new stuff at all. They just wanted to get their hands back on the old
\nstuff. They don’t care about Unforgettable or (his latest LP) Chicago Wind.
\nCome to think of it, though, there’s one similarity between the new fellas
\nand the old ones: they both speak with the forked tongue! (laughs)<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: Has any of this turned into an ugly legal matter?<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: There’s not any young attorneys that wanna mess with me. See,
\nI have an attorney, and he’s a real one.<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: Many of your older LPs are getting the deluxe reissue
\ntreatment by Capitol, and it’s shining a light on some of your most enduring
\nwork – but it’s also adding to that legacy by including a lot of previously
\nunreleased tracks. Did you have any say in what stuff got tacked on to those
\nCDs, and how do you feel about that?<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: Well, you know, it’s entertaining to me and I’m sure it’s
\nentertaining to other people to hear mistakes and conversations that we
\ndeemed unreleasable in the early days. But if you’re asking me whether or
\nnot I had any say-so on how they put that stuff together? Of course not.
\nThey didn’t ask me a damn thing. They just threw it on there. Some of those
\nsongs they put out – like “Swinging Doors” – the copy they have out now is
\nnot even the correct one! It’s the rehearsal take. We were exactly one take
\naway from the master. Now, I have no idea what happened to the master take
\nof that song, but see, what they’re selling’s not accurate. It’s that kind
\nof treatment that’s not fair to the artist.<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: How is it that someone of your stature in the music
\nbusiness receives so little respect or courtesy from the company that has
\nmade a small fortune off your work throughout the years?<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: What you’ve got is a bunch of kids workin’ there now and they
\nhave absolutely no idea who Merle Haggard is or what he is, or what he was,
\nand what he stood for. What they do is this: Let’s take a scenario. A new
\nattorney, fresh out of school, barely 34, he’s never heard a single one of
\nmy songs in his life. So, they wanna remix it, or whatever. Most of ’em
\nfigure I’m dead! As crazy as that sounds, that’s the first thing they
\nassume.<\/p>\n
So they just proceed to do whatever they feel like, until somebody says, oh
\nno! He’s still alive! So they say, well, let’s get him to sign something.
\nLet’s offer him a new deal. Then, once they’ve got your name on there, they
\nput it out regardless. They don’t care at all about your feelings or how
\nit’s gonna look to the fans. They have no intelligence. Kinda like our
\ngovernment.<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: You received the Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award a few
\nmonths ago. Does recognition of that sort mean much to you?<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: Well, lemme give you the real scoop on that. There was four
\npeople that got that award at the same time: Richard Pryor, Robert Johnson,
\nDavid Bowie and me. Now, two of the others are dead. And they thought I was
\ndead at first!<\/p>\n
So when I said, well, that’s great news, are you gonna let me walk out and
\nsay thank you? They said, “Oh, no.” They told me I had to get my award the
\nday before the actual event, and then sit there in the audience while all
\nthese rappers I don’t know get up and play, and they said, “then we’ll pan
\nacross you one time with the camera.” I said, naw. No you won’t. (laughs)<\/p>\n
I told ’em they could stick it where the sun don’t shine! I really don’t
\ncare about such things enough to take part in all that mess. (laughs)<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: So you didn’t even pick up the award your label keeps
\ntouting?<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: Naw, man. I didn’t go down there. They had to send it to me
\nin the mail. See, it’s shameful for an organization like that to use my name
\nand the names of Richard Pryor and Robert Johnson and David Bowie. Those are
\ngreat artists. But if you’re puttin’ the show together, you’re gonna throw
\nall those big names out there to try and get people to watch and get your
\nratings up, but heaven forbid you let anybody actually see these old fellas!
\nNeither me nor David Bowie went down there, for the exact same reason.<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: Many were upset when Buck Owens recently died. Had the two
\nof you kept in touch?<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: We were such good friends. Since the time he passed I’ve
\nlearned he wasn’t even sick. They said he was doin’ pretty well, in fact.
\nSeems he was tired and just went to sleep one morning. He came to see me in
\nPortland on that first tour with Bob and that was the last time I spoke to
\nhim in person. It was a big shock. Buck was really influential to my life.<\/p>\n
I’ll tell you something that a lot of folks may not agree with, but it’s
\ntrue. Buck was the epitome of rockabilly. He was half rock and roll and half
\ncountry. He came out of the bars of Southern California, and in deference to
\na lot of country acts that came out of the Southern gospel tradition, he
\ncame from the Bakersfield barrooms.<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: If there’s someone reading this who’s never considered
\nthemselves a country fan, what’s the one album Merle Haggard would encourage
\nthem to pick up that would serve as a great example of the very best country
\nthat’s ever been recorded?<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: Well, I don’t know. I don’t even consider myself country
\nanymore. I identify more with what’s happening in rock and roll right now,
\nand it’s the rock people who seem to identify with me the most, and treat me
\nwith some sort of respect. The country people are out to use my name for
\ndifferent things if they can, and the rock and roll people seem to just like
\nme for who I am.<\/p>\n
To hell with country! That’s the way I’m feelin’ about it.<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: Why do you think that is? I remember when Johnny Cash was
\ninducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, Roseanne Cash said it meant much
\nmore to him to be accepted as a peer by those folks than it ever did for him
\nto receive praise from the country music business.<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: Well, the rock people are coming from the heart and soul, and
\ncountry people are always tryin’ to use you.<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: That’s so strange: Rock and roll always gets tagged as the
\nshallow, callous genre, while country made a name for itself as being a more
\ntraditional and spiritual form of music that’s linked to the heartland and
\nthe whole compassionate conservative movement.<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: I think it went south along with our whole country. See, the
\nwhole situation of life has changed. What they’re calling country is about
\nas country as downtown New York! It’s got nothin’ to do with actual country
\nmusic. Country’s supposed to be about people who find their way from the
\nsoil to the microphone – instead of bein’ shaped into some kind of phony
\nperfection with computers like they do nowadays. I mean, who can sing and
\nwho can’t? You really can’t tell anymore.<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: Who do you listen to for pleasure or inspiration these
\ndays?<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: I wish I could give you a title of something. I don’t really
\nlisten to much new music at all. It doesn’t speak to me. XM’s about the only
\nradio I listen to anymore. We listen on the bus to a satellite channel
\ncalled Hank’s Place. I listen to old pop and country, but I don’t pay any
\nattention to what’s goin’ down today. I don’t find any melodies at all that
\nI can sit down and whistle! I always thought music was lyrics and melody
\ntogether. Nowadays it’s just lyrics and the same melody over and over again.
\nThere’s so little uniqueness, it really doesn’t turn me on.<\/p>\n
Connect Savannah: My buddy Webb Wilder is fond of saying that real music is
\nout there and real people are making it. I figure that’s why you and the
\nStrangers have continued to do well on the road.<\/p>\n
Merle Haggard: Well, I’ll tell you what – you’ve hit it on the head. That’s
\nthe reason we’re drawin’ people. They’re starved to death for real music!
\nThey sure can’t hear it on the radio anymore<\/p>\n
www.rockrap.com<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
Via RockRap.com–Hag shares his thoughts on his tour partner, Bob Dylan, as well as the “war on terror,” and country music\u2026 “I don’t even consider myself country anymore. I identify more with what’s happening in rock and roll right now, and it’s the rock people who seem to identify with me the most, and treat […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":17,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[2154],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-378","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-listening-post"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.ubc.ca\/ross\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/378","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.ubc.ca\/ross\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.ubc.ca\/ross\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.ubc.ca\/ross\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/17"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.ubc.ca\/ross\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=378"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.ubc.ca\/ross\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/378\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.ubc.ca\/ross\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=378"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.ubc.ca\/ross\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=378"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.ubc.ca\/ross\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=378"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
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