Meet Nathan, a combination of speech-to-text chatbots like Siri and AI research engines like Chat GPT. Coupled with the app’s ability to collect and present speech, photos, and videos, this app will do it all for students looking to explore a new subject area.
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Description: Two educators and tech enthusiasts play out the possibilities for the future of research with their app idea. Rolling through various helpful and hindering factors, this podcast shows that a potentially positive tech is not too far around the corner for educators and learners.
Transcript:
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;00;18 Hello, everyone. 00;00;00;18 - 00;00;01;21 My name is Kevin Dontas, 00;00;01;21 - 00;00;05;09 and I'm a student in the Master's of Educational Technology program at UBC. 00;00;05;23 - 00;00;07;18 I've been a professional educator for the last eight 00;00;07;18 - 00;00;10;25 years, and I have attended the University of Western Ontario for their media, 00;00;10;25 - 00;00;13;23 information and Technoculture program in my undergrad. 00;00;13;23 - 00;00;17;05 At the moment, I'm taking a class in mobile and open learning, and today 00;00;17;05 - 00;00;21;04 I will be hosting a podcast to explore forecasted technologies of the future. 00;00;21;22 - 00;00;25;02 With me, today is another long term professional educator and excitingly 00;00;25;02 - 00;00;27;23 enough, my brother, Kris Dontas. Hello, Kevin. 00;00;27;23 - 00;00;31;17 Hi. Kris, why don't you tell us a bit about yourself before we begin? 00;00;31;21 - 00;00;32;03 Yeah. 00;00;32;03 - 00;00;35;27 I've been teaching for, roughly nine years here in the same school 00;00;35;27 - 00;00;37;07 in Whistler British Columbia. 00;00;37;07 - 00;00;41;11 my classroom is just filled with technology of all sorts 00;00;41;11 - 00;00;46;08 from photography, filmmaking, coding, Photoshop, just a strong pedagogy 00;00;46;08 - 00;00;50;15 and, inquiry based and, technology learning within the classroom. 00;00;50;22 - 00;00;51;12 Awesome. 00;00;51;12 - 00;00;55;06 So to summarize, you have an amazing skill set and experience educating 00;00;55;06 - 00;00;57;00 successfully with technology in the classroom. 00;00;57;00 - 00;00;58;23 Yes, absolutely. Thanks. 00;00;58;23 - 00;01;01;29 well, thank you, Kris, for helping me host this podcast today. 00;01;02;07 - 00;01;05;24 now, we've been doing some discussing already as to what prospective 00;01;05;24 - 00;01;08;29 future aspect of mobile technology might be around the corner. 00;01;09;11 - 00;01;12;15 And we both agreed that one, which has not been realized yet, 00;01;12;15 - 00;01;15;24 but one that it's not too far away either, has to do with the combination 00;01;15;24 - 00;01;18;24 of two existing technologies, Siri and ChatGPT. 00;01;19;12 - 00;01;23;18 So think in the classroom, the combination of a conversational search engine 00;01;23;18 - 00;01;27;27 like Siri with the competitive power of AI like ChatGPT. 00;01;28;18 - 00;01;32;06 So my first question to you, Kris, if you had to name this application, 00;01;32;06 - 00;01;33;29 what do you think you might call it? 00;01;33;29 - 00;01;37;28 Well, if we're coming from Alexa and Siri, I think we land on Nathan. 00;01;38;14 - 00;01;39;20 Okay. I like it. 00;01;40;27 - 00;01;41;17 Kris, could you 00;01;41;17 - 00;01;45;13 explain to the average teacher what would Nathan do for students? 00;01;45;21 - 00;01;47;05 In the simplest sense. 00;01;47;05 - 00;01;50;28 Nathan is a downloadable application, for mobile device, 00;01;50;28 - 00;01;55;08 in which students can have a conversation with a research engine. 00;01;55;08 - 00;01;59;03 They would be able to learn information as if they're talking to a human being. 00;01;59;05 - 00;02;03;01 Hey, Nathan, what were some of the foods in ancient Japan? 00;02;03;08 - 00;02;06;12 whereas in your regular classroom, you know, the student put their hand 00;02;06;12 - 00;02;09;12 up to be running around, ping pong around answering questions? 00;02;09;12 - 00;02;11;20 Yes. Technology would replace that, it would be mobile 00;02;11;20 - 00;02;14;09 in their hand or their phone, whatever kind of device that they have. 00;02;14;09 - 00;02;17;03 answering and targeting those quick questions to keep them on 00;02;17;03 - 00;02;20;03 track, problem solving on their own throughout their their day. 00;02;20;15 - 00;02;21;08 Cool. 00;02;21;08 - 00;02;24;07 Or punching in the question to Google where they get multiple web pages 00;02;24;07 - 00;02;26;01 and they're just like I don't know which one to choose. 00;02;26;01 - 00;02;27;29 I see so much text can get overwhelmed. 00;02;27;29 - 00;02;29;11 And then on top of that, too, it's 00;02;29;11 - 00;02;32;03 not I'm going to type in a Google and then have to read more. 00;02;32;03 - 00;02;35;15 I mean, there's so many reluctant readers, especially in our grade here, 00;02;35;19 - 00;02;39;20 to have that conversation piece with that ChatGPT and Nathan, 00;02;40;00 - 00;02;43;05 making more that conversation is where we see it really being successful. 00;02;43;13 - 00;02;44;01 Cool. 00;02;44;01 - 00;02;46;28 have you heard of Globe Explorer's AI before? 00;02;46;28 - 00;02;48;02 no, I have not. 00;02;48;02 - 00;02;51;12 it is an AI search engine which shows 00;02;51;12 - 00;02;54;25 pictures, to help you understand what's going on. 00;02;54;26 - 00;02;56;19 So I have another question, which would be, 00;02;56;19 - 00;02;59;25 do you think that this application showing pictures 00;02;59;25 - 00;03;03;29 and possibly even videos would be helpful for students in their research? 00;03;04;00 - 00;03;04;15 Absolutely. 00;03;04;15 - 00;03;09;08 I mean, to to see, read and hear what you what information you need to to learn. 00;03;09;08 - 00;03;10;25 It's just it's just so powerful to have. 00;03;10;25 - 00;03;12;15 That would be amazing. Awesome. 00;03;12;15 - 00;03;15;07 So on the whole, do you think this would help or hinder 00;03;15;07 - 00;03;17;06 student research and project creation? 00;03;17;06 - 00;03;18;19 Oh, I think it would only help. 00;03;18;19 - 00;03;22;16 just the amount of time that students sit and wait 00;03;22;16 - 00;03;23;29 for their questions to be answered 00;03;23;29 - 00;03;26;29 while the teacher, you know, there's only one of them bumping around. 00;03;27;00 - 00;03;31;07 this would target those quick questions to keep their pace going, 00;03;31;07 - 00;03;32;14 to keep their research going. 00;03;32;14 - 00;03;34;15 I just see it helping tremendously. 00;03;34;15 - 00;03;37;27 So do you think at the end of a project that teachers would be assessing 00;03;37;27 - 00;03;43;19 genuine student research and learning, or simply a regurgitated Nathan response? 00;03;44;00 - 00;03;45;05 I mean, it's a good question. 00;03;45;05 - 00;03;48;04 I think Nathan's not built to ask. 00;03;48;07 - 00;03;53;00 Nathan, please write me an essay on ancient Japan. 00;03;53;01 - 00;03;56;02 It's more of the targeted small questions. 00;03;56;08 - 00;04;00;07 So the the skill, I mean, it's essentially replacing and making research easier 00;04;00;07 - 00;04;01;24 for those students who have difficulty with it. 00;04;01;24 - 00;04;04;13 They're still building the essay. They're still doing the work. 00;04;04;13 - 00;04;07;13 They're just accessing that information in a in a different way. 00;04;07;27 - 00;04;08;22 Okay. Awesome. 00;04;08;22 - 00;04;13;00 what do you think the biggest potential strength of this application would be? 00;04;13;12 - 00;04;14;14 I think it's momentum. 00;04;14;14 - 00;04;18;23 I mean, seeing when students understand what's going on, 00;04;18;23 - 00;04;19;28 they have that pace going. 00;04;19;28 - 00;04;21;25 They're excited about, they're working on, 00;04;21;25 - 00;04;23;25 and then all of a sudden, to be hung up on a question 00;04;23;25 - 00;04;26;09 and lose that momentum, lose that confidence. 00;04;26;09 - 00;04;29;15 The idea of Nathan would be to keep confidence high 00;04;29;21 - 00;04;32;29 adding a powerful tool to their learning toolbox, 00;04;32;29 - 00;04;35;26 which allows them to problem solve on their own, 00;04;35;26 - 00;04;38;25 asking the specific questions that they need for whatever project 00;04;38;25 - 00;04;40;03 they're currently doing. 00;04;40;03 - 00;04;42;27 I also agree, I think that an app like this 00;04;42;27 - 00;04;47;01 would encourage the question generating process for them 00;04;47;01 - 00;04;51;17 and encourage students to ask even deeper probing questions rather than the surface 00;04;51;17 - 00;04;55;14 level ones that might restrict them on a regular Google search? 00;04;55;18 - 00;04;58;11 it would be like, like a one on one teacher. 00;04;58;11 - 00;04;59;25 And in a way, yeah, pretty much. 00;04;59;25 - 00;05;01;13 Yeah. That's helping with visuals and 00;05;02;19 - 00;05;03;29 stuff like that. 00;05;03;29 - 00;05;05;27 What would you have to say about one of the weaknesses 00;05;05;27 - 00;05;09;24 being hallucinations in AI generative information? 00;05;09;24 - 00;05;13;18 And for those who don't know what hallucinations are, they are the, 00;05;13;18 - 00;05;16;18 posing of information that is not factual. 00;05;16;18 - 00;05;21;27 They are, imagined examples that don't actually exist. 00;05;21;29 - 00;05;24;26 I guess there's two different applications for Nathan. 00;05;24;26 - 00;05;28;14 one is a quick conversational search tool. 00;05;28;21 - 00;05;30;06 Hey, Nathan. What's that? It out of data. 00;05;30;06 - 00;05;31;10 Oh, well, it's da da da da da. 00;05;31;10 - 00;05;35;18 And it's a quick answer that might not be used in research. 00;05;35;19 - 00;05;37;11 It's just you need quick information. 00;05;37;11 - 00;05;40;10 The flip side is you're writing a research paper, and you're using 00;05;40;10 - 00;05;43;09 Nathan to provide a summary or information. 00;05;43;18 - 00;05;46;11 I mean, we teach about finding credible sources. 00;05;46;11 - 00;05;47;24 We teach about using references. 00;05;47;24 - 00;05;51;01 Nathan, ideally would provide sources where the information is coming from. 00;05;51;06 - 00;05;54;02 Those students at higher levels should be fact checking. 00;05;54;02 - 00;05;56;27 I don't see much of a difference between 00;05;56;27 - 00;06;01;05 using an online web search like Google versus Nathan. 00;06;01;05 - 00;06;04;06 If we're going to be if you're going to be assessing in the same similar way. 00;06;04;21 - 00;06;05;18 All right. 00;06;05;18 - 00;06;08;26 Well, Kris, thank you so much for helping me host this podcast again. 00;06;08;26 - 00;06;09;14 And to everybody 00;06;09;14 - 00;06;12;24 who's listening out there, I hope you are looking forward to Nathan. 00;06;13;20 - 00;06;14;22 hitting the market soon. 00;06;14;22 - 00;06;17;03 Hitting the shelves soon. Thank you so much, everybody.
References
Explorer – AI Powered Discovery & Learning Engine. (n.d.). Explorer.globe.engineer. https://explorer.globe.engineer/
ChatGPT. (2024). ChatGPT. Openai.com. https://openai.com/chatgpt/
Siri. (2018). Apple (CA). https://www.apple.com/ca/siri/
Hello Kevin,
Thank you for sharing your podcast with us. It will be fascinating to see how the technologies you discussed converge in the future.
I’m curious if offering a web interface could be an additional avenue worth exploring, especially since some schools have strict policies on downloading and installing apps on managed devices. Your podcast raised essential points about the challenges and opportunities ahead.
Thanks for the engaging discussion.
Joel
Hi Kevin,
Thanks for your mini podcast with your brother on an imagined new app Nathan combining the functionality of Chat GTP and Siri. I think this is actually happening as Apple has partnered with OpenAi to cooperate on using this technology which will start to be unveiled in new iPhone releases and iOS upgrades. Recently I enabled Siri just to see if it had improved over the years, unfortunately not, Siri is still a flop in my opinion, however I feel confident that is about to drastically improve very soon (within 1 to 2 years), with Apple and other products regarding (really effective) voice activated Ai. I think Nicole Magne covered this really well in her A2 OER. I’m so excited for this technology!
I liked hearing your thoughts on this in regard to how it may apply in the classroom. One interesting point you (or your brother?) made was the idea that it can keep a learner’s momentum going and their confidence up. If they are diving into a topic, they don’t need to get stuck on a point they don’t know, which could potentially derail their momentum. That’s a good point, all this information is already quick access scaffolded for them, so in theory they could dive deeper into something they are interested in. My question would be though, is there a need to balance that with the skill and habit of exercising the ability to research and discern information or will that come into play naturally when needed? One other question I wonder about is, does all this easy access to infomration affect our ability to retain knowledge and is that even important?
Thanks for your thought provoking conversation.
Rich
hey guys, weighing in here about the direction we’re likely to see Nathan moving forward. The use case by Apple with its “new” unimpressive Siri was done intentionally to limit hallucinations but is less powerful in its creative abilities. So in the use case of a product like Nathan – this Apple approach would actually work really well in the context of a lower- risk educational product aimed at students. Ethan Mollick (https://www.oneusefulthing.org) has a fantastic substack and his most recent newsletter covers this topic. Mollick writes that the new Advanced Voice mode in ChatGPT and the AI-powered Siri represent two distinct AI philosophies: Copilots versus Agents, and small models versus large ones. New Siri remains a “Copilot” focused on privacy, safety, and security, using a small model that runs directly on the device without an internet connection. This results in a very private but less powerful and safer AI experience, similar to the old Siri. Apple’s choice to use a small model ensures privacy but limits Siri’s capabilities, making it less impressive than larger, generalist models like ChatGPT. While small models are fast, cheap, and specialized, they lack the complexity and capability of larger models. A limited capability Nathan “Copilot” is likely the product we will see in the near future – especially if it’s going to get the approval of school boards and sanctioned into the classroom market.