Week 2: The High and the Low — What is Good Taste?

The novel begins with Garcia Madero explaining to his poetry teacher what a rispetto was. When I read this, I had a hunch that tension between the High and the Low, or between the Snobby and the Down-to-earth, would be at play in the novel. So far, I think I’m not too far off. Bolaño finds the perfect context to explore this tension: poetry; for poetry is at once High and Low. Poetry is studied in university, but poetic expression does not necessarily require academic background.

Most poets in the book are sensitive beings, using their body and senses to judge the world. Therefore, they are not naturally repulsed by the morally or aesthetically vulgar things as we normally would be. One excerpt illustrates this through writing — the narrator describes a questionable act with beautiful language — “But how could Lima go all the way to the other end of the continent to buy marijuana?” The act of travelling to the other end of the continent is romantic, adventurous, but paired with smuggling marijuana? The juxtaposition is astounding and poetic. I particularly enjoyed reading this sentence. Such juxtapositions of the “low” and the “high” appear often. One moment, the narrator is writing a poem “about the university ([him] running naked in the middle of a crowd of zombies)”, the next, he writes another “about the moon over Mexico City”.

I don’t have a good idea of the visceral realists’ tastes, but it seems like they are grappling with their simultaneous appreciation of the Snobby and the Down-to-earth. On one hand, they are all educated, well-versed in classic and contemporary literature. They defend the “academicist” in Alamo’s poetry workshop. Rescuing Lupe from her pimp Alberto fits into this aesthetic. It is a heroic act, and they are fighting against the very embodiment of vulgarity, Alberto. On the other hand, they steal, deal drugs, and exploit innocent women like Rosario. They have no moral struggle about these actions. Perhaps they consider it avant-garde, using these “low” acts to balance out their literary snobbism, to bring rebelliousness into their poetry, setting themselves apart in the world of literature.

One night, Garcia Madero kissed María, writing: “she tasted of cigarettes and expensive food. I tasted of cigarettes and cheap food. But both kinds of food were good.” I thoroughly agree with him on this. Enjoying both kinds of food is a sign of good taste. It means one is not so easily influenced by appearance. Unfortunately, Madero’s good tastes don’t extend much beyond food. When Rosario asked him to write a poem for her, the night they first met, Rosario began to talk about “a very dear and longed-for family member who had disappeared and come back again.” “But what did a poem have to do with all that?” Wondered Madero.

Well, Garcia Madero, everything. Rosario’s account is probably more poetry than anything you’ll be writing. A natural outpour of emotions, erupting during a night shift at a noisy bar.

I love that Bolaño depicts the proletariat girls as naturally drawn to literature. Rosario falls for Madero, but let’s not forget their first interaction was her asking him for a poem. Later, she says she’ll read books to catch up to him. Her love is not a simple veneration. It’s a belief that something from her life is worthy of being written into poetry, that she is worthy of poetry. It’s powerful. Lupe, in the hotel room with Quim, is also actively proving her literacy. When later Madero read a random recent poem of his to Rosario in response to her commission, I wanted to beat him up. Perhaps they think they are avant-garde poets for fooling around in the “low” world, but there’s an emotional insincerity about the visceral realists.

So, this is the question I want to discuss (I know it’s a little abstract): Which character has the best taste? Although not everyone is a poet, if they wrote poetry, whose would you most like to read, and why?

I would like to read Rosario’s (reasons explained above).

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Juan is Having a Time

I know my title is just an obvious statement, but I haven’t been able to figure out how else to describe the first part of The Savage Detectives. Juan García Madero gets adopted by a bunch of weird poets and stops going to law school. And no one who knows even really cares. And then he moves in with an adult woman. And still no one really cares.

Why do so many adults want to have sex with this teenage boy? Is the author unbothered by this, and is the reader also meant to be? Is there some kind of critique in the fact that Juan leaves it all behind at the end of the first section? While I’m tempted to admit that this is probably not the point of the novel, it does strike me as a prominent element.

Aside from that, I’m quite curious about whatever Visceral Realism is. I like the concept of the visceral: something instinctive, something bound up within the entrails, something that rushes beyond or around the intellect. I’ve never thought of realism (or the forms of it that I’m familiar with, at least) as something that aims to provoke a visceral reaction, but I suppose it could be. Or maybe it’s the creation process that would be visceral. Does creation always have a visceral aspect?

To go back to the “bunch of weird poets” bit, I am (mostly) enjoying how strange a lot of the characters are. And I like that they’re not necessarily strange in a charming way: they’re erratic, and prickly, and lust-driven, and self-centred. I don’t feel strong affection for any of them, but I am interested in them as a group. For Juan García Madero, perhaps the most “normal” character so far, I would say I mainly feel mild-to-moderate concern.

For my official question(s) of the week: Do you find that short chapters make a long book easier or less intimidating to read? What is appealing about short chapters/sections? Do you think there are any drawbacks?

This question comes partly from my recent experience with The Savage Detectives, and partly from an interaction with one of my own students. I do a weekly English/novel study class with this kid, and when we were discussing which book to read next, he requested not a shorter book, but a book with shorter chapters. Is there something satisfying about getting through the chapters faster? Do short chapters make it easier to process information (particularly in a second language)? Is it an attention span thing? I didn’t have time to interrogate the student, so I hope you all will give me answers!

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The Savage Detectives: Part I

First Impression?

I was quite frightened at first to start reading the book but soon after I read the first couple of pages, I felt relieved and a bit surprised. I was locked in as one calls it and was enjoying it more than I had anticipated. There are many thoughts that lingered in my mind as I read the first section of The Savage Detectives.

I very much enjoyed the diary-entry style. I think another reason I have enjoyed this part of the book is that I had access to García Madero’s unfiltered thoughts. His disordered and restless thoughts sounded very human and even normal to an extent. To me, they sounded like what might go through a teenage boy’s mind as he explores life. I must admit I was caught off guard at times, but it’s so real and filled with an abundance of emotions. The pages were filled with thoughts that he could not voice out, so instead he wrote them down; Matters that appealed to him as a young boy: his passion for poetry, being a visceral realist, losing his virginity, his desires, his self-confidence, and an overwhelming number of insecurities that he carries within himself, and María…

He is also called García Madero rather than simply Juan as if he is a famous poet and seems to be a respected individual given some level of importance as the story builds. The section is for the most part about him following the visceral realists, his high admiration for Lima and Belano, him writing poems, and his sex life. At times, I did wonder whether I needed to remember or keep a list of the couple thousand names mentioned or the small conversations scattered over 3-4 pages. I wasn’t sure if I needed that information or should note it for future reference. They seemed irrelevant and unnecessary.

Going back to his self-confidence and insecurities, the book starts with García Madero being a virgin and does not seem like one that has engaged with females much in his life and out of the sudden he is getting complimented left and right by women, being desired by them, and jumping from one woman to another. A virgin to a womanizer? His story with María is noteworthy, as it is when we see him distinguish “love” from mere intimacy. A note on his other sexual explorations: how is a 17-year-old boy going around giving these women the time of their lives? I wonder whether he is fabricating what actually happened as what he describes sounds like an exaggeration, perhaps a way to feed his self-confidence by lying to himself? Or maybe he is misinterpreting all these instances, hoping they were real?

Closing Note

As I was reading, every time I stumbled upon the name Arturo Belano, I realized how similar it sounds to the author’s name, Roberto Bolaño. I had that thought in the back of my mind and I was wondering whether that character was him? This became more solidified when we learn in the book that Belano is from Chile and that he came to Mexico after the Pinochet coup. I’m left wondering whether Belano is Bolaño himself. Also, at the end as they leave the city, I am curious to see what happens next. While I enjoyed the diary-entry style, I would not mind a change in the next section and a move beyond the narrow focus on García Madero to explore other characters, especially Belano… The first section of the book appears to be an introduction that provides the reader with some context. I sense that the story is just about to begin.

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initial thoughts? in the making… — [the savage detectives; “mexicans lost in mexico (1975)” pp. 3-139]

initial thoughts? in the making…[the savage detectives; “mexicans lost in mexico (1975)” pp. 3-139]

Not quite sure what to make of it all, at least not yet. I am enjoying reading Bolaño’s work, enjoying it quite a lot actually. More than I thought I would.

A few things that I keep coming back to while I have been reading:

  • I am enjoying the diary/journal entry format. The passage of time feels comprehensible and accessible. Typically, I am not very good of keeping track of time within narratives — this helps. I wonder if this formatting will span the entirety of the novel. (I briefly looked ahead and I do not think it does).
  • I can’t believe this kid is supposed to be in law school. I think he has only gone to class twice or so within the 1-2 month-long span of this section. Does money for tuition not factor in here?
  • I keep reminding myself that Juan García Madero is seventeen years old. I think this fact makes me uncomfortable. I wonder if it’s like a Bonjour Tristesse moment, where the character’s age is fantastically relevant in an idealized kind of way. Where the advantages of ‘youth charm’ characteristically triumphs over adolescent naivety. Not completely sure where I stand yet. Will mull it over some more as I go further into the book.
  • Wow, there is so much more sex in this book than I expected. Lately, I have been in the habit of reading my books aloud and with this one I am finding that I have to choose my spaces much more carefully.
  • Was expecting to hear much more about the visceral realists. Perhaps that will be further down.
  • How does Alberto (i.e., gringo, pimp, guy with knife as measurement) make pizza while holding the knife?
  • What’s going on with the deaf-mute man that Quim spoke about? The one who is not actually mute? (And possibly not deaf?) I wonder if we will hear about him again.
  • I also wonder if we will hear more about Quim’s (supposed) derangement.
  •  Will we ever read one of Juan García Madero’s poems? He said they are meant to be read and not spoken. Perhaps this will come back into play. If the poem is included, will it simply be laid out in such journal entry format? Or will it perhaps be read aloud in dialogue with another character?

These are my thoughts thus far.

One question I have for you all is how do you think the title figures into this chapter? “mexicans lost in mexico (1975)”. The majority of this chapter has García Madero hopping from place to place in a lost sort of manner, but also from woman to woman. Where do you think the ‘lost’ aspect plays into it all?

 

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Lost

MEXICANS LOST IN MEXICO. I hadn’t thought much about this title of the first part of Roberto Bolaño’s The Savage Detectives, until the second half of this segment, when I started to truly feel Juan García Madero’s deep feelings of uncertainty and solitude. I don’t know if Bolaño intended on this title being a representation of the young narrator’s feelings of emptiness and loneliness, or if he was trying to make a statement about the feelings shared by many of the characters in the story. Or perhaps he meant something else completely? But near the end of this first section of the novel, all I could feel was a deep sense of loneliness and sadness in my heart. Perhaps this is because I have felt completely “lost” during many parts of my life, especially as a teenager. That feeling of being lost was always enveloped in solitude and a lack of a sense of purpose. Similarly, I don’t get the impression that Juan has a clear sense of direction and purpose in his life. He goes to law school, ends up joining a group of poets (the visceral realists) and completely neglecting his studies, followed by seeking out momentary thrills, which is demonstrated by his many sexual encounters. And yet at the end of everything, he seems unfulfilled. At times, he says he wants one thing, then completely contradicts himself afterwards, such as when he says he doesn’t want to sleep with María anymore but then desires doing that more than anything else. Perhaps he is just completely controlled by his raging hormones, which make him pursue things that he says he doesn’t want to do? I understand that he’s seventeen and that many people at that age are still trying to figure out who they are; teenagers trying to find themselves. He admits that he was “clueless about what to do with my life” (p. 123). This is a part of coming of age, which this novel captures quite well.

I have a great appreciation for Bolaño’s writing style. It’s simple, yet it communicates a lot. At times I found the text to be humorous and entertaining, but most of all, I appreciated the narrator’s way of expressing his thoughts and emotions in an honest and raw manner. The fact that he contradicts himself actually gives us the sense that he is human. I must give credit to Bolaño for constructing such a three-dimensional character, with very real emotions and desires. A lot is communicated by silence. The moments of introspection and quiet contemplation resonated with me. I like how we spend a lot of time in Juan’s thoughts. We get to know him. And we come to realize how unfulfilled he is with his (new) life when he describes “the abyss that opened up behind me if I looked over my shoulder…holding only darkness, silence, and emptiness” (p. 125).

This is how it feels to be lost.

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The Savage Detectives I (pp. 3-139)

As someone completely unfamiliar with Bolaño’s works and The Savage Detectives, I really went into this first part blind, not knowing what to expect. Yet still, any of my faint preconceived notions went out the window as soon as I started reading. I certainly found this first part to be quite interesting, and to be absolutely clear, I don’t say that in a bad way, in fact, I found the first part of The Savage Detectives rather enjoyable to read. For starters, I really liked the journal style of writing! Juan García Madero, or just García Madero as everyone calls him (which I believe was brought up both in conversations with Maria and Quim), is an excellent writer to give him some credit. Whenever I’ve tried to write journals or just random notes about my day as a child or teenager, it looked nothing like this. Alas, this is a novel written by Bolaño at the end of the day, not an actual journal written by García Madero. However, I like to imagine that what I’m reading really did in fact happen and that it really is a journal written by García Madero, I find that this is how I can truly get immersed into a book. But don’t misinterpret me, I’m not saying that I want the actual events of the book to have been real. For example, I most certainly don’t want Lupe’s story of Alberto at the “contest” to have been real. As a reader, I just want to kind of “suspend my disbelief” in a way to get the most out of my experience reading. In an ideal world, I could pick up a book, completely engross myself into the book as if it were real, and then put it back down and carry on with my day as normal. Of course, that sounds a bit dangerous, I certainly don’t want to end up like the man from Continuity of Parks!

Anyways, apologies for sidetracking a bit from the task at hand of giving my actual first impressions of The Savage Detectives. I might do that in future blog posts as well, so another apologies in advance! (Although, I do think that the point of these blog posts is to spark discussion, which includes some sidetracking as well) What I really enjoyed the most about this first part were the characters themselves. Not the descriptions of 1970s Mexico, not the numerous references to real-life poets, but the actual characters and how they interact. At the heart of The Savage Detectives (or at least the first part) is García Madero, a 17-year old law student who becomes a visceral realist (the name of the members of this literary movement although I find it difficult to describe exactly what it really is), except he doesn’t really study law, he spends most his days reading poetry, writing poetry, talking to other visceral realists about poetry, going to cafes, drinking, smoking, and later on, a lot of sex.

Yes, García Madero has many flaws, to name a few: his unruly desire for sex, his over-obsession with the visceral realists and poetry, as well as his overall aimless nature and naivety where it’s shown that he’s still figuring out what he’s doing in his life. He’s kind of like a leaf just flowing in the wind, searching for belonging maybe or perhaps some other higher purpose? I believe that’s part of the reason why he becomes so attached to the visceral realists and why he takes it so seriously. García Madero is not somebody I admire, nor somebody I want to be, or even wish to have been friends with. Yet, I like him. Despite all his flaws and things that he had done or said that made me cringe, I still end up rooting for him. It’s not because he’s a mere teenager that I overlook his flaws (I was a teenager once too and definitely wouldn’t act like him), I think it’s because he’s flawed that I root for him. I want him to succeed, I want him to grow, I want him to find whatever he’s looking for. I’m not sure why but maybe it’s because of the way I immerse myself through the pages of his journal that I almost have to root for him because I’m living his life through his journal. I bet if I had read the events of this book from another perspective, I might have even hated García Madero, but that’s not the case here.

So, a question that I perhaps would like for us to discuss collectively would be “Can you find yourself disliking a character like García Madero, yet rooting for him at the same time?” From the above you can probably tell that I think the answer is an obvious yes, yet I’ve had similar discussions with some friends in the past that has got me thinking before. For example, Breaking Bad and Walter White, Walter is an incredibly egotistic drug kingpin who has done and said much, much worse things than García Madero. But despite it all, I think many other fans of Breaking Bad and I can’t help ourselves from rooting for this “bad guy.” However, I also think that this was really what the writers of Breaking Bad intended, maybe that’s not the case for what Roberto Bolaño intended with García Madero. Anyways, I’d be curious to know what you all think!

P.S. Going back to what I said about liking the characters, I also am really intrigued by the Font sisters, Quim, Lupe, Belano, Lima, Pancho, and Rosario, but this blog post is already well over 500 words so maybe I’ll mention them in a future blog post.

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Crazy Garcia Madero..

Hi Everyone!

My initial reaction to the book was that it is boring and I have no idea how I will be able to get through all the pages. I’m not quite used to reading this genre of books and it certainly does not help that I have a terrible attention span. However, what I did like was that the story was told through Garcia Madero’s diary as this journal entry style made it easier to read. However, at times it felt very personal and I felt like I was invading his privacy even reading it.

For example, his sexual scenes were very descriptive and it was weird how he kept going from girl to girl. First it was the waitress in the storage room, then Maria, and then he was also thinking about Angelica. A lot of the details he mentioned felt irrelevant. It felt as if any woman he talked to the only thing he cared about or wanted from them is sex. He also acts like he is “the man” and is above others around him but he just is not. For example, when Garcia Madero, Maria, and Lupe were walking and Maria said, “If Lupe’s pimp shows up you’re defending us.” He thought he would be able to impress Maria but later goes on to say he hopes he doesn’t show up after hearing about him.

It made me wonder if the author intended to make him so unbearable and unlikeable. Although I’m not surprised that a seventeen year old boy is sexist, it was definitely unpleasant to read. As the book went on, it felt less about the visceral realists and the poetry movement and more about the personal story of Garcia Madero’s personality change. Even when the poets did meet up there wasn’t much discussing poems or how to advance the movement. Another aspect I did not like was that it felt like there were so many names and people being thrown at me that I was not able to keep up with who is who and who serves what purpose.

Furthermore, he mentions how he only went to Law school because of his Aunt and Uncle however, his passion lies in Literature and Poetry. This resonated with me because I majored in Political Science to get into Law School because of peer pressure and I honestly do not want to go to law school whatsoever.



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Los detectives salvajes’ lists

Exhibition images of Bolaño Archive. 1977- 2003
Exhibition images of Bolaño Archive. 1977- 2003. https://www.cccb.org/en/exhibitions/file/bolano-archive-1977-2003/41449

Los detectives salvajes in this first part have overwhelmed me with lists of poets and books that seem endless, a vertiginous number of lists that go round and round until you get tired of them. At first, I vaguely considered keeping these lists in mind, for example, the list of books that Juan García Madero identifies on 11 de Noviembre; but after a few more pages and a few more lists, including those of streets and friends, I gave up and preferred to refer to Umberto Eco (2010) and his idea of considering that “la lista es un género literario más extendido de los que se cree” (17).  – The list is a widespread genre that is commonly believed*-, and it seems that Bolaños is shouting for his part in this genre.

On 22 de Noviembre, I don’t have any interest in understanding, contrasting, refusing, or to think in the list of poets and the gender classification made by San Epifanio. However, considering Eco, El vértigo de las istas, (The infinity of lists), I believe that a possible perspective on these lists is “transmitir el sentido de la inmensidad … expresar lo indecible” (18), referring to quantities, of the poetry and poets known by García Madero y San Epifanio, a practical or pragmatic lists, that “[they] refer to objects in the outside world and have the purely practical purpose of naming and listing them […] record things that are really existent and known” (113); nevertheless, and in the same practical lists that Eco refers, Garcia Madero, Sand Epifanio, the sisters Font and the other compinches on los detectives salvajes, their pragmatic list turn on poetic lists.

Eco proposes that poetic lists are those where “los objetos que nombra no tienen que existir necesariamente” (19) —the objects listed do not necessarily have to exist*—; lists containing “… la imposibilidad de expresarlo todo y sugiere[n], pues, el vértigo de un ‘etcétera’” and avoid continuing hasta el infinito, like San Efinafio’s list.

These los detectives salvajes lists, likewise, collections of poets’ names and titles of poetry and literature books, make me think of a curiosity cabinet and the first experience of seeing it, perhaps an astonishing place in the first view, but after some hours, or some pages reading, those seeing, or reading, are similar. I take a breath, close my eyes, and the cabinet is for me a better place to explore than Garcia Madero and the other characters’ lists. Why? For me, their lists turn into a chaotic shape. And, seeing from the Eco’s perspective, García Maderos and other lists could be lists that refer to “excesos coherentes”(30), indicating “una poética de la lista por la lista, redactada por puro amor a la lista, de la lista por exceso” (23).  List coherent by excess. (254). I enjoy another kind ot lists!

Here, the Eco book and conference about lists.

Eco, Umberto. (2009). The infinity of lists. Rizzoli International Publications, Inc.

Eco, Umberto. (2010). El vértigo de las listas. (Conference). Revista Científica de Información y Comunicación 2011, 8, pp. 15-34.


*My translation of the Spanish version.

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Bolaño 1: Waiting for Better

I have definitely read worse books than The Savage Detectives. In one sense, I’m glad that the book is mandatory because otherwise I probably would have either DNF’d it, or at least put it back on the shelf for “later” (a later that would never come because it would be included in my annual Facebook Marketplace sell off).

I don’t tend to love a journal entry writing style, but I thought it flowed well and the prose was well-written. I’m interested in Bolaño’s choice to make the main character so unlikeable in this section. While it does make it difficult to care about what happens to him, an unlikeable main character also allows more space and potential for growth. What happens to how you read the book when you, as reader, are less emotionally invested in the characters? The plot was slow but the overall tone didn’t feel like it was.

In terms of the act (/experience) of reading, I like the cover and the texture of the cover of the Picador edition. Physically, it’s a great read and is nice to hold: I love a book that’s floppy. It’s a long book, so I understand that having thin pages reduces its width and weight, but it is a little annoying that you can see the shadow of the text from the opposite page as you read.

Another little quirk I noticed is that the last line of the novel (I swear I’m not one of those controversial readers who reads the last line of the book first, I was just trying to check the page count) is on the literal last page of the book, which I feel like I don’t see often, either because of author bios or publishing ads or blank pages. I feel like it’s cool for the math to have worked out so exactly when they were printing the signatures to make the book.

I see from some of our classmates’ blog posts that I am not alone in being slow to warm up to the novel. But, The Savage Detectives is well-rated on the internet (4.5/5 stars on Goodreads, 5/5 on Indigo.ca, 4.03/5 on Storygraph), so I have faith that even if the pace doesn’t quite pick up, that the story will start to be received better the further in we get.

I expect it will be kind of like when you recommend a new television series to someone else, and you promise them that it gets good, they just have to “make it through” the first few episodes. I am waiting for this novel to change my mind, get good, and earn its 4/5 star rating.

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SAVAGE DETECTIVES ONE

My first impressions about the novel were rather positive. I enjoy reading the first 124 pages because of its realistic and honest language ( although at times was corny and  cold) , so it was a good start for this long journey that Bolano is sending us of.

The first part is all about Garcia Madero. To me , he is not an unlikeable protagonist but i can see why some of my classmates feel weird-out or simply do not know what to think about him. Garcia’s voice is innocent , curious but at the same time ,he is also cold and sexual ( he is a teenager after all , we had been there with our hormones killing each other). Teenagers are not very likeable in real life so i accept the character how he is. Intentionally or not , he is trying to construct his own  identity  as he is submerging in this Mexican literature world that sometimes is chaotic for him and makes him to feel lost in his own city. This can be an indication of the developing of identity and purpose in a society where classes exist and what happens to those writers that do not belong to the  hegemony.

He is a ” savage detective” for how great of an observer he is. He is trying to get a sense of this new world (sexuality , poetry , even adulthood)  by recording everything he sees or hears. He takes what his older colleagues tell them ,but he develops his own conclusions as when he deducted what was going on November 13 and the marihuana deliveries (24). I would say that he is “savage” because he does not develop polished comments or thoughts. He just says what he thinks and wonders around the truth of his feelings as when he was trying to understand if he himself was “deflowered” too. What exactly means being a virgin?  he pondered ( 27).

The sexuality aspect was an interesting one. It feels like a moment of initiation into this club of poets. I appreciate the way how the author depicted it as less romantic experience but rather cold and explicit. His first sexual encounter is clumsy but effective on him. He does not fall in love with Brigida for “helping him out” and he is actually indifferent to her. He is also portrayed as someone submissive who was told what to do which i find to be a very interesting way to portray masculinity in this young writer. Maybe that was an experiment to prove if he is ready to enter the  environment of the visceral realists.

Discussion question:

What does this part of the novel tell us about  the social worlds/classes in the literature world in Mexico or anywhere in Latin America?

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