The Insiders
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Jan
18
Issue of the Day: Elites
Posted by: Neal Yonson | January 18, 2007 | 16 Comments
Today was spent talking to people, both in person and online, about the elections. And a couple main themes emerged. One is far more existential, and I need to organize my own thoughts more properly before I can even begin to express them.
But the more accessible one is that people perceive the AMS as being elites. As being a student ruling class, safely ensconced in their second-floor offices with plush, reclining chairs. In some, this breeds resentment. In others, fear, apathy, pity, and contempt. For others yet, it’s respect, and something to which to aspire. It certainly makes the AMS neither accessible nor approachable. I also get the feeling it can’t be exclusively concerned with elected office, since people have been expressing it about me as much as they have Gina, when I’m not a Councilor, nor an executive… I’m just an overly engaged student.
What I’m curious as to is where this perception comes from. Where do people get their ideas of AMS types? We heard today of peoples’ shock at the fact that the people in the offices were students, not paid administrators/employees… that ain’t right. We’ve also heard of people a little nervous or afraid of us, a thought that makes me very uncomfortable.
I’ve also realized that I’m very out of touch with the mythical common student. I’m just not good at getting into the hearts and minds of people who aren’t, well, me. So that’s why I’m asking you. I’m fully aware this isn’t probably the best crowd to ask this to, as most of the readers here are AMS-types who would tend to fall into the class. But the comment left in the post below has given me hope that there are non-AMSy types, at least a few. So, my questions:
1) What specifically is it, that creates this impression of the AMS?
- How is it that AMSers behave that alienates so many people?
- What behaviors have made you feel left out, or not included?
- Are we actually aloof?
2) What can AMS types do differently?
In the aforementioned comment I was accused, rightly, of using language that made someone feel alienated. It was a mistake. I appreciate that feedback. I also don’t mean to suggest that it’s merely a problem of perception; in this case, perception is the reality and they’re equally bad. Anonymous comments are enabled – please be brutally honest.
Comments
16 Comments so far
I’m pretty entrenched in the system these days, though Gina is terrifying.
Thinking back a few years I would point to a couple things:
(1) Lack of knowledge – I had no idea what the AMS was or that there was a distinction between university administration and the AMS.
(2) Segregation – I almost never went to the second floor of the SUB, and when I did I encountered a desk and some offices that weren’t very inviting. I don’t recall ever even seeing an AMS exec.
I’m pretty entrenched in the system these days, though Gina is terrifying.
Thinking back a few years I would point to a couple things:
(1) Lack of knowledge – I had no idea what the AMS was or that there was a distinction between university administration and the AMS.
(2) Segregation – I almost never went to the second floor of the SUB, and when I did I encountered a desk and some offices that weren’t very inviting. I don’t recall ever even seeing an AMS exec.
First of all, I’d like to deeply apologize for my use of “us” and “them”. I’ve tried other terms but the post started to become even more confusing and unnecessarily complicated. I do not mean to worsen the already terrible feeling of seperation.
Moving on…
I wonder if this is a common perception throughout all levels of our student government. We in the EUS (that is, the EUS Executive, Council, and other overly engaged students) are often accused of being elitists.
…And like you, I’ve asked the same question…why? What is it that we do, what is it that we say?
It would seem that (dare I use the word…) ignorance contributes greatly to students feeling seperated somehow from us. Not understanding what it is that we are doing in our roles as involved students and not understanding how we affect them makes them apathetic.
Not understanding quite how difficult it is to make the decisions we make and do the things we try to do makes them angry when something they disagree with occurs.
Once they are angry and apathetic, it becomes difficult to engage their interest in what it is we do…and those who are less involved begin to feel more and more segregated from those who are involved.
Now that the segregation is there…it is easy to imagine that “we” are a tight-knit and closed group of students.
Information is an incredibly powerful tool in helping to ease this feeling…but apart from speaking directly with each student about the world of involvement with student politics, how can we reach every student?
Posters and articles only reach those who are engaged enough to notice them or read them…which does nothing for those students we really need to “get to”.
And in order to finally rid our campus of these notions, we really do need to get to every student…because negative notions in the corner of campus broods very easily.
Perhaps focussing our attentions on our neophytes (first years and new transfer students) would be the place to start…inform them before they have time to decide that they don’t care.
Did any of this make sense at all? I’m terrible at formulating my thoughts…this gibberish was exhausting for me to compile
First of all, I’d like to deeply apologize for my use of “us” and “them”. I’ve tried other terms but the post started to become even more confusing and unnecessarily complicated. I do not mean to worsen the already terrible feeling of seperation.
Moving on…
I wonder if this is a common perception throughout all levels of our student government. We in the EUS (that is, the EUS Executive, Council, and other overly engaged students) are often accused of being elitists.
…And like you, I’ve asked the same question…why? What is it that we do, what is it that we say?
It would seem that (dare I use the word…) ignorance contributes greatly to students feeling seperated somehow from us. Not understanding what it is that we are doing in our roles as involved students and not understanding how we affect them makes them apathetic.
Not understanding quite how difficult it is to make the decisions we make and do the things we try to do makes them angry when something they disagree with occurs.
Once they are angry and apathetic, it becomes difficult to engage their interest in what it is we do…and those who are less involved begin to feel more and more segregated from those who are involved.
Now that the segregation is there…it is easy to imagine that “we” are a tight-knit and closed group of students.
Information is an incredibly powerful tool in helping to ease this feeling…but apart from speaking directly with each student about the world of involvement with student politics, how can we reach every student?
Posters and articles only reach those who are engaged enough to notice them or read them…which does nothing for those students we really need to “get to”.
And in order to finally rid our campus of these notions, we really do need to get to every student…because negative notions in the corner of campus broods very easily.
Perhaps focussing our attentions on our neophytes (first years and new transfer students) would be the place to start…inform them before they have time to decide that they don’t care.
Did any of this make sense at all? I’m terrible at formulating my thoughts…this gibberish was exhausting for me to compile
As a first year student, I’m rather delighted to find this blog. I had no idea that the AMS was run by students at all, previously, and I had no idea what sorts of issues that the campus faced. I guess most people couldn’t care less about the AMS because it doesn’t seem like the AMS is giving us any reason to care about it, and become informed of it. Heck, we don’t hear about the AMS at all.
I agree with a lot of what bowinn expressed, and uh…will go forth and read up on the AMS now, I guess.
As a first year student, I’m rather delighted to find this blog. I had no idea that the AMS was run by students at all, previously, and I had no idea what sorts of issues that the campus faced. I guess most people couldn’t care less about the AMS because it doesn’t seem like the AMS is giving us any reason to care about it, and become informed of it. Heck, we don’t hear about the AMS at all.
I agree with a lot of what bowinn expressed, and uh…will go forth and read up on the AMS now, I guess.
I think that AMS could do a better job at bringing students into the decision-making process with more leadership opportunities and collaborative processes. Imagine if students were asked to design the green spaces for the University Boulevard project, or there was a design competition for renovations to the SUB like the conversation pit.
I think apathy in part stems from not trying on the students part, or poor outreach by AMS, but also from a lack of opportunities where students can take ownership and make decisions over the AMS without running for office.
I think that AMS could do a better job at bringing students into the decision-making process with more leadership opportunities and collaborative processes. Imagine if students were asked to design the green spaces for the University Boulevard project, or there was a design competition for renovations to the SUB like the conversation pit.
I think apathy in part stems from not trying on the students part, or poor outreach by AMS, but also from a lack of opportunities where students can take ownership and make decisions over the AMS without running for office.
Hi Mike, it’s the terrifying Gina Eom posting. Hmmmm power….
Anyhow, I think when it comes to “student engagement” to the undergraduate societies and AMS council as a whole, there is such a wide plethora of root issues that can be addressed. I first of all think that the undergraduate societies need to become a lot more relevant in order for the student to become connected. This is not solved with more beer gardens, I am afraid.
Verillian, I’m really happy you “found us” but this also means the AMS is not doing its job. I’m not doing my job as a councillor either. There were some good ideas bounced around at the Debate today, and students don’t realize (to borrow language from Jeff Friedrich) that each time you use your UPass, you are using an AMS Service. We need to change that.
When we look at the Faculty with the most connected students, I can point to Land and Food Systems. I suppose Mike Woodward would make a case for his Faculty (Commerce), and he would have a point.
Timbits and I will be making a post on this, as it seems to be a highlighted theme of this election (though in context a recurring theme of all AMS elections I’ve witnessed).
More to come.
G
Hi Mike, it’s the terrifying Gina Eom posting. Hmmmm power….
Anyhow, I think when it comes to “student engagement” to the undergraduate societies and AMS council as a whole, there is such a wide plethora of root issues that can be addressed. I first of all think that the undergraduate societies need to become a lot more relevant in order for the student to become connected. This is not solved with more beer gardens, I am afraid.
Verillian, I’m really happy you “found us” but this also means the AMS is not doing its job. I’m not doing my job as a councillor either. There were some good ideas bounced around at the Debate today, and students don’t realize (to borrow language from Jeff Friedrich) that each time you use your UPass, you are using an AMS Service. We need to change that.
When we look at the Faculty with the most connected students, I can point to Land and Food Systems. I suppose Mike Woodward would make a case for his Faculty (Commerce), and he would have a point.
Timbits and I will be making a post on this, as it seems to be a highlighted theme of this election (though in context a recurring theme of all AMS elections I’ve witnessed).
More to come.
G
I was at UBC for 6 years (undergrad and grad) and I have always been fairly active in any kind of organizing and administrative bodies. But I never got involved with the AMS and here are some reasons why:
1. Out of date webpages. I often wanted to go to council meetings but all I could ever find out was that they were on alternating Wednesdays (I think). But no one could ever tell me *which* Wednesdays.
2. Lack of accountability. I worked with Clubs on campus and I regularly had to deal with SAC and FinComm. I was often treated in a really arbitrary and unfair way but I had no one to complain to about it. Council defends their own and never stopped to consider that some of the people they work with might treat outsiders (like treasurers and presidents from small clubs) like dirt.
3. I didn’t live in residence and so I never had connections to all of the AMS and AUS candidates who were from residence and experience there.
Finally, I would disagree with the notion that people aren’t involved because they aren’t informed. I was very informed (or as informed as I could be despite out of date webpages). I just wasn’t part of the clique!
I was at UBC for 6 years (undergrad and grad) and I have always been fairly active in any kind of organizing and administrative bodies. But I never got involved with the AMS and here are some reasons why:
1. Out of date webpages. I often wanted to go to council meetings but all I could ever find out was that they were on alternating Wednesdays (I think). But no one could ever tell me *which* Wednesdays.
2. Lack of accountability. I worked with Clubs on campus and I regularly had to deal with SAC and FinComm. I was often treated in a really arbitrary and unfair way but I had no one to complain to about it. Council defends their own and never stopped to consider that some of the people they work with might treat outsiders (like treasurers and presidents from small clubs) like dirt.
3. I didn’t live in residence and so I never had connections to all of the AMS and AUS candidates who were from residence and experience there.
Finally, I would disagree with the notion that people aren’t involved because they aren’t informed. I was very informed (or as informed as I could be despite out of date webpages). I just wasn’t part of the clique!
Tim,
You mentioned something about keeping the car in drive versus driving it off a cliff. I think we were talking about student governments.
Let me be more specific then. To take your analogy further, let’s say SPAN skeeted around the abyss, while Spencer Keystone made sure the car ride ran smoothly and safely.
How slow does Spencer Keystone have to drive before you start thinking that maybe a little calculated risk might be in order?
Or, could you get the thrill of SPAN again without doing so many douchebag things and alienating everybody in the process?
I’m predicting that your immediate response will be as follows (sorry for the paraphrasing):
“I get that anon. But there are passengers in the car. You can’t endanger the passengers.”
And then I’ll say: “I’m in the family Tim. And I want to go for a little ride before we can’t afford this car anymore.”
Tim,
You mentioned something about keeping the car in drive versus driving it off a cliff. I think we were talking about student governments.
Let me be more specific then. To take your analogy further, let’s say SPAN skeeted around the abyss, while Spencer Keystone made sure the car ride ran smoothly and safely.
How slow does Spencer Keystone have to drive before you start thinking that maybe a little calculated risk might be in order?
Or, could you get the thrill of SPAN again without doing so many douchebag things and alienating everybody in the process?
I’m predicting that your immediate response will be as follows (sorry for the paraphrasing):
“I get that anon. But there are passengers in the car. You can’t endanger the passengers.”
And then I’ll say: “I’m in the family Tim. And I want to go for a little ride before we can’t afford this car anymore.”
and I want to “stop and look at the scenery and then find out why the tire is getting flat”
and I want to “stop and look at the scenery and then find out why the tire is getting flat”